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red blue life mix feedback
Hey mp!
A weird little song I wrote recently.. me and @sexton tried to create energy that’s driven mainly from saturated acoustic guitars & vocals which reduced the need to use a lot of compression
keen on releasing soon so we heard it way too many times and would love to get some honest feedback from fresh ears
Final mix stages, looking to hear anything regarding levels and frequencies.. thanks 🙂
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7 Replies
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This is awesome, Bar!!
I think you could turn your vocal up significantly. Like 3db or so, given the level of the other instruments. At first I felt like the bass was way too loud, but then the other instruments entered “too loud” also, and I realized that I think if u really boost the vocal (or turn everything else but the vocal down) it would achieve the same result. Make that vocal the star of the show!
You could also experiment with adding a gentle top-end boost across the whole mix (perhaps a pultec EQP-1A, bandwidth set to broad, 10 or 12k, if it feels nice)
My other nagging feeling is about the snare (take it or leave it, obv, haha). It feels both “mono” and “distant/roomy”. Everything else in the mix is very “stereo” – the acoustic guitars, etc. – so that roomy mono snare feels a bit out of place to my ears. U could try layering in a more hifi stereo sample, like the Paul Mabury one attached. OR – I could even hear maybe an electronic snare instead – to match the synth vibes – like the deep dry sound of a CR-78 or Oberheim or Linn Drum snare. Attaching a few examples (for demonstration purposes only 😬).
Love the song and production, @barrose and @sexton! Something about it is giving me nice Bruce Springsteen “I’m On Fire” vibes 🔥🙌
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Hey Bar,
This is a cool little tune. You’ve succeeded in creating energy with the guitars. Really good energy at that. like Dire Straits playing NPR’s Tiny Desk.
Because the song builds up a head of steam, its gonna require automation of levels or a very active set of hands on a console to keep the musical balance appropriate. ie, a static position of the bass guitar fader that may be pocket for the end of the song when the train is moving. is (let’s call it boisterous) for the early part of the song when the bass makes its entrance. That vocal level that is a tad light early in the quiet section has no chance competing later when the wheels start spinning. The song structure is dynamic, that’s interesting, and appealing. I would consider mixing it in sections.
I ask myself Is the vocal to music relationship feeling good early when the song starts? Now that the drums are in have I retained that vocal to music relationship? With a full bed of music going for the guitars to soar over, is the vocal intensity where it needs to be to be “the star of the show?” I would guess that if the band recorded this live, the intended dynamic of the song would have been performed intuitively because the musicianship is really good. Overdubbing parts, like the way I’m thinking the song was constructed, can make a mess of the dynamics.
I will attach a Voc up 3dB version to see if Dana’s suggestion is correct.
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Thanks @Dana & @-PT! Your comments honestly shook us up (in a good way) and gave us a new perspective.
Here’s Version 2 – a checkpoint mix with your feedback in mind: vocal up ~3 dB, bass/kick rebalanced at the entrance, a bit more low-end support in the quiet sections to narrow the perceived jump when everything kicks in, and a Linn-style snare direction to sit better against the wide acoustics.
Raising the vocal also raised a new challenge that might push us toward a re-record: the limits of automation. Just thinking out loud here – when a performance is extremely dynamic, there seems to be a point where automation stops feeling like shaping and starts feeling like forcing the source. I think that’s part of why we kept pulling the vocal down in earlier passes – it’s just a tough source to “hold steady” across the song.
We’re also considering an electric guitar to bring clearer chord definition and broaden the spectrum, potentially replacing the acoustic solo – and maybe even taking over the melodic synth role.
Big changes ahead 😅 So this is mainly our “this is where your feedback took us so far” touch-base version. any quick thoughts welcome – we’ll share the next version soon.
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That’s your snare sound for sure!
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Here’s my updated version of your updated version.
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Ha ha, now you’re gonna have to tell us what you did so we can learn 🙂 Very nice, Paul.
We’re hearing a bit more presence – maybe a touch more top end. Is that what made the vocals feel louder/come forward? Or is it a multi band compression?
Glad you like the snare – it’s the Behringer LM Drum (Linn-inspired, picture attached).
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Bar,
Curious. Did you listen to both my re-dos?
My “re-do” technique is multifaceted and predictable these days, and because I mostly don’t make my own music I rely on the musings of the MP fam and the generosity of many an opening act at the historic State Theatre in Ithaca, NY where I reside at FOH. Two-track recordings that move me capture my attention and then get some love. The mechanics of that process follows.
Two track USB wav files off my console at work. or in this case, mp3 files from posted files at MP are imported at 48K 24 bit in my DAW. I am an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church but DAW agnostic. I’ll insert NEVE console emulation plugins on both the stere channel and the stereo buss and make the meters move a good bit.
The imported two track gets a lgentle harmonic saturation to open up the track if it feels a tad dark and lacking “air” in the mid and high frequencies as I perceived yours to be. The master buss is where the magic happens. The new updated Ozone 12 has a module that I previously had to go outside this mastering software to achieve stem separations that I can work with. It’s called STEM EQ and gives me 4 separated stems to work on. DRUMS, BASS, VOCALS, and OTHER. Each of the separate stereo stems allows me to manipulate volume (+9 to -9dB) and more importantly, an 8 band parametric EQ that has automation. I don’t think I’ve ever utilized more than 4 bands of EQ on a stem and then stem level volume control to remix a song . Gentle broadband shaping seems to be the most musical and least destructive path.
Specifically on your v2, I added a .7dBboost to the vocal level stem and gave it a80Hz high pass and a gentle shelf +2 db boost at 15 KHz.
The bass stem got a single -2dB filter at 300Hz to make it less mushy and .5dB level boost. The drum stem received a low shelf boosted +2dB at 12fHz and below with a brickwall high pass at 20 Hz and -2dB cut at 15KHz to tame that exuberant high hat. The stem level remained at unity.
The last stem includes all the other instruments and is appropriately named “OTHER.” Once again, the volume level at unity and two EQ filters engaged. A 2dB medium width cut at 250 Hz and yet another high shelf +1.5 dB at 1KHz.
The master buss has a subtle image widener, eqs at 32 Hz +1dB and a high shelf +1.5 dB at 10 KHz. I’m fond of the “Upward Compressor” parameter that effectively gains up the low level info a few dB to help smooth dynamics by raising the quiet. Never touched a compressor or limiter.
Put it in the oven, bake until -14LUFS.
Serve warm, no calory goodness.
Voila.
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