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Greater Hands – Mix Feedback
Hi, y’all!
Could you lend me your ear on a mix?
I’ve gotten a master of this song but I thought it sounded muddy-ish. Because I’m very mix anxious, I’ve gone back into to see if I can clear up space for the vocals, especially at the end with the big choir, piano, and kitchen sink stuff.
My usual concerns: Does the vocal sit on top? Does the beat/bass slap? And are the S’s tamed enough?
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Jeremy
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24 Replies
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Duuuuuude! This is so beautiful and awesome! I love it and so stoked and thankful for your share, man. Here are my spontaneous unedited notes I wrote while listening:
– lil compressed
– kick sound – esp in the beginning and non-chorus parts – might be better w some low pass so it’s not so tick-tick-y
– gorgeous bgvs!!
– lead vocals could be a bit louder and sparklier. Also could be a bit more stereo w a touch of verb or echo
– yeah kick is defs pumping the buss compressor too much for me.
– So good!!! Love this song and vocals and acoustic elements, nylon guitars, whistles, etc. and the low end bass feels booty-ful!
– I think for me it’s just something about the kick sound feeling too “electronic” or EDM or too clicky on the top end, and the pumping it’s forcing on the overall mix is making the rest of the mix feel small. Personally, I would prob swap out the kick for something that has the punch and consistency and power and depth of an Elec Kick, but one that’s perhaps a bit rounder or darker so it blends easier with the organic vibes of the song. That and a little sparkly fairydust on the lead vocal, plus a bit more volume on the lead vocal and maybe a dash of stereo flavor on the lead too so it .. you know .. sounds “more expensive” 😉
You rule, brother! Hearing this gem on the heels of “Believe In You” …. All I can see in my head while listening is this:
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Hi Dana!
Been marinating and remixing based these notes and really finding it so darn meaningful to hear those kind words to this song which means so much to me. Thank you! (ps: those bgv’s were arranged once again by the great @Nate.)
The kick is too clicky! I agree. I never noticed but I felt it. And now I can’t unhear it. (ps: I finally got Reference 2 thanks to your suggestion on our call and it finding it helpful to really hear the difference quickly between my mix and references which I use heavily).
I’ll sprinkle some more verb and echo on the vocal as well! Can you make a plug in called Fairy Dust so I can do this more easily? Is that what you use for widening primarily, verb and echo? Is sounding more expensive also essential boosting the 10k and up air stuff, for you?
As for the pump, I was really leaning into Odesza at the time of production and sidechaining the heck out of the bass. I want a bigger mix! But not sure I can unpump the pump from my stems. ha.
Either way, I’ll have another mix soon with hopefully enough fairy dust and round kick flavors.
Thanks as always for the notes and the support!
Jeremy
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Haha – Fairy Dust plugin… gonna add that to my to-do list!
Yeah, for vocal processing I always have these aux input chains set up and readily available (pro tools templates, track presets and workflow included in the Prep School course):
- Slap
- Delay
- Reverb
- “Dolby” (silky top-end aux using something like Waves Aphex Aural Exciter. Years past I used a modified hardware Dolby-A unit, which is in my garage collecting dust since going full ITB with my mixes, but the track name remained)
- “Dim D” (stereoizer type processing using something like UAD Dimension D or Gem Mod by Overloud)
I certainly don’t always use ALL of these FX returns on my vocals, but they’re there for me to try out at any time, and I find I can pretty much get whatever sound I’m going for using a combination of these elements.
Can’t wait to hear your next mix update!! And great BGV arranging, @Nate, you bad boy!!
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🙏 Gonna hit that Mix Prep School!
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I’m so stoked man!! Hit me up in the private Prep School Forum with any questions, requests, or ideas related to the course and/or downloads! 🙏🏻
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Hi Dana and MP fam!
Many thanks for those fairy dust ideas (this would be a sweet app!, just saying). I incorporated many of them and even got the exciter. Fun!
Curious if this mix improved the kick and the vocals / over all vibe?
I like an electronic kick for this song though hopefully I tamed the high end / volume and now have it actually in tune with the song. haha.
Am I close?
PS: Thanks for pointing me to the Prep School!
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Jeremy, This song has evolved considerably lately, and by that I mean it has moved from an engineering production laid atop a man’s song to a man’s words being served by the production. I think you’re in the right space now. Your singing and Nate’s primo BGV arrangement get to shine through, rather than compete for attention. There’s a hierarchy that is now far more appropriate for what I perceive to be you intent. The piece is softer, more inviting, and more likely to move people at this point, but Jeremy, that fucking kick drum man! My instinct says to use a kick sound mimicking the one used on the Raising Sand record by Robert Plant/Allison Krause. Specifically, the song “Please Read the Letter.” It’s big, deep, and it’s organic like a heartbeat. Oh!! My instinct also leads me to think about the intro and outro and how to minimize what’s there to keep the focus where it should be. The good writer uses fewer words, but more powerful ones. The synth opening riff is seemingly more “production” than necessary. The guitar riff is all the invite needed into the song. The density of the outro. chorus almost gets in the way of your words Then again there’s an entire subplot about struggle going on in this song. I think there’s a dramatic moment, as of yet unrealized. I said it after the first version and will again. The three most important words are your last ones, “To be me.” How more effective might they be if heard against the background of silence? Bless your guitar players heart and all, 🤨, but his work was a bar or so already. The message can stand on its own and shine in the single spotlight by that point. Fade to black. Silence, then applause.
It’s your sand box, thank you for letting me verbally rearrange the castle. PT
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Hi Paul,
Love the depth you put into this feedback and your poetic way of interpreting and verbally arranging, as you said.
Generally I think cutting some of the intro and outro could be helpful and impactful (and certainly more modern and pop-forward). As a study in comparison, I listened back last night to my favorite all-time inspirations (eg. Radiohead, Odesza, Edward Sharpe) and I really loved so much the *extra-ness* of their work.
There’s also an album context with this song too and sometimes I think while the intro of this song could be either deleted or added to the outro of the preceding song on the album to make it short and snippy for Spotify, I feel *at this moment* that I would just rather be a little extra. ha!
Having said that, I really appreciate your ideas and will give them a try nonetheless. 🙂
Many thanks,
Jeremy
Ps: thanks for turning me onto the Raising Sand.
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Jeremy, I’m thankful my words landed and helped you confidently clarify your musical vision. That’s a win to me, not because one of my suggestions made the cut, but rather that our conversation focused you to a more deliberate musical choice. To make a sport-ball analogy, the assist can be as valued as the actual scoring. PT
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I love it! So much great progress man – sounding soooo good!
… but the kick lolol …
I’m totally sold on the idea of electronic kick on this track, Odezsa style. I just think this particular kick sample isn’t right yet – and that’s such a huuuuge part of what will ultimately tie it all together and sell the whole concept of the badass acoustic-dance banger it is!
If you’re willing to post 2 stems – mix without kick, and kick solo’ed – I’ll make a quick video demo of what I would do 🤓
But dude … fantastic job. Noodling around with electronic kicks is a piece of cake compared to the daunting feat of blending all those live instruments and vocals the way you have. 🙌
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Wow, Dana. Means a lot to hear I’m progessing. Especially after spending at least a full day on it since the last version and I’m learning a lot. Exciter helped a lot too with the vox.
But Roy can tell you from our years of masterminds that kicks have been a challenge for me! I also tried auditioning other kicks and while many sounded more premium they all sounded too much like something I’d heard before, some genre that I don’t want to be.
“Acoustic dance-banger” is exactly right on!
DM’ed the stems.
Looking forward to learning your process!
Thanks,
Jeremy
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Boom! Lemme know what you you all think. I’m curious:
- if you’re into the resulting kick vibes
- your favorite or preferred method of drum triggering, sample replacement, Splice hunting, and/or sound mining
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Danaaaaa!
Amazing. That kick has much-BOOTY!
And this tutorial was so cool for seeing your work flow and tools. I don’t often kick-stack cuz I didn’t have a solution for phasing in my belt. Now I do!
I’m seconds away from buying the Infected Mushroom because whatever money I haven’t given to Bezos belongs to Waves plugins it seems. ha.
Also, I dig the extra pump. I guess if you were to pump your mix you would pump most things except the vocals?
Huge thanks for taking the time in the late nigh hours to give this mix some love and teach us all.
Incomparable.
Thank you,
Jeremy
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Ayyyyye! So glad u dug it, man!
Bezos vs. Waves LOLOL! Yeah that IM Pusher is a bit of a sleeper – i never hear it mentioned ever, anywhere, haha, but it’s a handy lil’ tool I’ve gotten a lot of use out of over the years.
And the SoundRadix stuff is very good. Historically, I like to sort out all that phase stuff by ear using the UAD Little Labs IBP so I can sweep around and find what I like. But since getting the SR Auto-align plugin I’ve used it a lot for a quick and easy fix.
Also, there are many times I don’t need to phase align the Trigger and Kick tracks. Sometimes the 180º flips within the plugin do the trick. But depending on the samples, sometimes the phase is in between 0º and 180º and some heftier tools are needed, as was the case in this instance.
I would keep vocals out of the pump chain … unless it sounds cool having them pumpin’ with the track, then leave ’em in! No rules! (well, maybe one rule: you don’t want the kick bussed to the pump aux input when it is the source of the sidechain key input… otherwise you’d be working against yourself) 😉
Keep up the great work!! ⚡️
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Noted! And will use this a much need resource moving foward! Appreciate cha, DANA!
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this is awesome Dana! Love seeing the 1am upload timestamp….haha.
You are the man. SO informative. Love utilizing Trigger to expedite and blend samples. Implementing into my workflow pronto.
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Haha – 1am I’m just getting started … lol. Thanks so much, @Nate!!
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Jeremy, I think you are correct for asking is there room for your vocal at the end because the three most important words of the song are “to be me” A strong declarative statement at the end is a perfect way to wrap up the story. Plant the flag at the end and walk away victorious. PT
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Respect, thank you Paul! Well said.
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Gosh darn!!! So beautiful, man! I LOVE this song. You have a way with making me feel the music. Another hit!
ps – I agree with Dana about the kick drum. It feels out of place with the organic vibes of the rest of the song. If it’s too late to swap it out, maybe just a bit quieter and filtering some of the high end off might do the trick too?
Again – I LOVE THIS SONG!!! congrats!!!
Best Wishes,
Jesse
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Thanks, so much, Jesse! I really appreciate the kind words. As for the kick… I hear it now thanks to you and Dana, it’s a bit over-smacked. It’s also out of tune I noticed so I might replace or tune and round off the high end like you suggested. I’m working on it and will report back with a new mix soon! Thanks again!
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Damn Jer! Another banger 🙂
Vocals sound so damn big!!!
I think it depends wether you want it to sound electronic or acoustic, because everything aside from the kick sounds so acoustic and real. I would lean to the acoustic/ stomp vibe.
Perhaps have a remix version with the heavier kick or incorporate it in the last chorus.
I would love to hear how it sound with a stomp simple 4 on the floor kick.
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Thanks Roy! Appreciate that. Yeah, a stomp is the vibe, but an electric Berlin-meets-Htown stomp! Ha. To your point, I recognize that a true foot-on-the-wooden-floor stomp would be iconic and work more effortlessly.
But for real would love to hear a Roy Matz re-mix with a guest vocal too. Just saying. 🤩
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Bitches and hoes, Stompin with my bros!
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