[Dana Nielsen]

Heck yeah man! No rules. No fear. Whatever it takes to shape the dynamics and manifest your sonic vision!

I always try my best to bake those “master bus” automation moves into the mix – that way, if someone else is mastering, I won’t be dependent upon them for those micro moves, and they can just focus on tone and macro dynamics, i.e. the overall limiting.

That said … sometimes your carefully crafted mix dynamics (i.e. quiet verse, loud chorus) will get flattened out by limiters used in mastering. After all, that’s the limiter’s job – to reduce dynamics and increase loudness.

So when needed, I will automate the OUTPUT gain of the last limiter on the mix buss or mastering chain to achieve the specific dynamic shape I want. Rick Rubin calls this technique the “slippery fader.” He might say something to me like, “maybe try some slippery fader on those choruses so they really jump out.”

While you could achieve this by physically/manually riding a fader or knob, this is one instance where (gasp!) I prefer using a mouse instead of a fader. If the limiter’s output for my loud choruses is at 0db, for example, I will change my track settings to view the limiter’s output automation, select my verse sections, and trim them down to like -1.5db. Then I’ll audition the volume change and make sure the automation breakpoints are exactly where they should be – musically – to disguise the sudden moves.

Here’s a short playlist I made a while back demonstrating the “slippery fader” technique. The first song by Green Day is the first time I ever noticed this trick in the wild, back when we were in high school. The second song by Pom Poms is a mix of mine where I employed the same trick.

Enjoy and good luck “slippin'” those faders!

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6bZXOPJ4869mJVLFqlGGqV?si=f0c5e98ec6964ec3

[Jesse Lewis]

Yoooo!!! Thanks man! SUUUUPER helpful!!!

This question was in reference to my track w/ the vibes, which I actually already had used the “slippery fader” trick on in my mix bus! haha

As I was mastering it I STILL felt that the really quiet ambient parts needed to come up in volume, just to limit the dynamic range a bit more. It’s so interesting — all of the psychological and sonic magic involved in mixing to get things to feel good on speakers or headphones. When I was in the woods playing live all of those super dynamic parts felt so good, but then when translating that very same performance to speakers the really quiet sections feel like they need some extra support/volume to make them feel more like the energy of actually playing live. It’s all just so fascinating!

I’m really glad to hear you confirm that this is is OK, and that it’s something that you do.

As a sidenote — I’ve noticed with the vibraphone, particularly in the low midrange — when they cross the threshold of the limiter (im using fabfilter L2) they cause much more distortion than my guitar transients do. If I had to guess I think it’s because the attack of the vibraphone with the mallets lasts longer than the pick hitting the guitar string. And in such an intimate setting, I really have to be careful not to let the vibes hit the limiter (whereas with drum beats, etc. I think they might mask the distortion better)

Thanks for your quick and very informative response!

Love,

JLew

[David Maroul]

I LOVED reading this! I too obsess over this kind of stuff and for better or worse craft my own tracks mixing while mastering. This is only for my own self-released projects so I am free to experiment & screw up what ever I like with no reservations or concerns about what happens further down the chain. The “slippery faders” anecdote brought me joy to hear of this being employed by You. Great inquiry by Jesse as well.

[Dana Nielsen]

@dave! Heck yeah man – no rules!! Well … one rule: “just make it sound awesome by any means necessary”! 🤘⚡️

[Dana Nielsen]

You are on the right track man! And yeah it’s fascinating stuff, trying to get our “hearing the world with our ears” experience to translate to speakers – not to mention, speakers of all sizes.

One note I should mention: This type of limiter automation during mastering is, for me, kinda a last resort. That’s not to say I’m ever ashamed to do it, hahaha; I just try to work out all my automation and dynamics within the mix before it gets to mastering or mastering limiters etc., otherwise it feels like you’re still “mixing” during the mastering process.

On that note, regarding your vibraphone and Pro-L2: it’s true, low-mid vibes energy will interact differently with the limiter than will a guitar pick transient. Try adjusting the Attack (faster), Release (slower) and/or Lookahead (longer). Also, try every single Mode or Flavor or whatever they call it – i.e. Modern, Transparent, Aggressive, etc. I try every one of these modes on every single mix. Typically, one of them is a clear winner, and they’re all really different.

BUT! ….

I’d venture to guess the solution is in your mix, not the Pro-L2 settings. Without hearing what you’re hearing, I’d suggest two things:

1. Apply some compression to the vibes stereo track in your mix so you’re not forcing the limiter to work so hard. If the low-mids of the instrument are the culprit, then you could even try a multi-band Pro-MB or a low-mid dynamic band of Pro-Q4 trained on the trouble frequencies of the vibraphone, so that it’s only triggering compression when those problematic notes/range come into play.

2. Use less limiting on your master. Keep the music in mind – you’re two people playing ambient jazz in the woods, not Metallica lol. If you’re getting distortion from Pro-L2 you must be trying to make the music VERY loud, which in this grenre I don’t think you need. Change the Pro-L2 meter to “Loudness” and try shooting for something btwn -14 and -10 LUFS – that should be plenty loud for this style of music.

Hope these tips make sense and are helpful! Keep us posted on your song and your mastering adventures! If helpful, maybe take a peek at the MixLab “Mastering for Spotify” replay 😉😘