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Way To You – Mix feedback please
Hey MP fam! I’d be very grateful if you would be willing to give this short song a listen and give me any feedback, particularly in the area of the mix. This is a song I wrote for my son when he was two years old. Now that he’s about to turn 13 I’ve been reflecting back on it and I want to finish it for his birthday in a few weeks. My idea was to present the song in it’s most basic format, very simple – just the acoustic guitar and vocal.
A little technical background on how I recorded it if it’s helpful…. I tried out mid/side recording on my guitar for the first time. I put a small diaphragm mic on the mono source (the middle/main guitar) and panned the other mic (large diaphragm) which was placed right below it hard left. Then I duplicated it and panned the exact copy hard right, but with the phase inverted so they add width in stereo but null when the mix is in mono. Then I overdubbed the vocal afterwards.
Thanks in advance for whatever ways you think this could be improved.
Best,
Jesse
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29 Replies
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Hi Jesse! What a nice, sweet and beautiful song for your not so small any more kiddo! Awe, he will be so excited. 💙 My feedback would be to pull the vocal up or guitar down since I wanted to hear your voice louder. I’m sure as a guitarist first, your tendency is to make the guitar louder but do not be afraid of your smooth voice, Jesse ‘cuz it sounds fantastic! Way to use your musical gifts as a gift for him. I love it! 🥰. PS: If Dana doesn’t respond soon he is tied up in a 15 hour per day/7 days per week gig out of the house….
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Hey @CMN and @dana !!! Sorry for the delay, I’ve been out of town w/out my computer so just checking back in now! Thanks for your supportive comments about the song, Singing a song in such an exposed and raw way is such a different (and highly self conscious) experience for me. It’s crazy! Believe it or not, I had already pushed the vocal level so much louder than I thought was appropriate haha! But I’m so thankful for you guys’ feedback – I will bump it up another db or so and re-share it and see what you think. @dana – incidentally the original mp3 i posted is no longer available. not sure what happened to it?
Thanks again buddies!
❤ – Jesse
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Yeah so sorry bout that – it got lost during our server restructure! If u wanna DM it to me I can edit your original post and add it again!
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I can’t wait to listen to this on real speakers, Jesse! And what a precious gift for your precious boy 💜
My preliminary quick phone listen had me agreeing with @CMN wanting louder J-Bear vocal! Sadly, however, on the phone I was unable to relish your Mid-Side badassery. I love that technique and can’t wait to hear how it came out when I get a chance on real speakers or headphones … soon!
Love love love the song, performance, and meaning!!
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Dear J-Bear,
I’m with Charissa on this one. I wanted to relish the vocal presentation so I did this to your sweet song. I even used a new reverb I bought yesterday. It’s another in the iZotope line of AI helper plugins called Aurora. The smarts in it do some kinda magic of suppressing the amount of verb while the dry signal is happening and then allowing the verb to bloom. It definitely makes my disdain for (in the way) reverb less because it allows the good ambience to show up after the fact. (It’s substantially different than pre-delay.) I also let the vocal be the side-chained input to the guitar level control. While the vocal is happening one can suppress the guitar track by a tasty amount of reduction to your taste. It’s frequency dependent also, depending on what’s common to both the guitar and vocal. I thought it helped me clean up the overlap, and not hurt the guitar tone. I’ll trust your guitar-centricity on that observation.
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Yo Paul! As always – Thanks so much for your response. I’m sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I’ve been away without my computer for the last several days. Unfortunately, that MP3 that you posted here isn’t available for me to listen to for some reason, so I can’t hear what you did with that reverb and side chaining technique. If you’re able to upload it again, I’d love to hear it.
Either way, I totally understand what you are describing, and had even wondered if I should try to side chain my vocal to the guitar to have the guitar duck a bit when I’m singing, but then I figured maybe I should just keep it simple… but I’ll go back now and try that technique out if you think it could benefit from it. It’s definitely worth a shot.
I’m curious to hear that reverb you used also. That sounds really cool. I’m sure you’re already hip to this technique, but a “poor man’s” version of doing this would be to side-chain the reverb plug-in to the vocal so that every time you sing the reverb ducks and when you stop singing, that’s when it comes back in again. This works great with guitar leads also – where if you’re playing lots of notes, the reverb doesn’t muddy them up, but then when you leave space the reverb comes back in. Sounds like this plugin just does it all for you with just the one plugin!
Thanks again, Paul. And if you get a chance, I’d love to hear your rendering if you get a chance to upload it again. Thanks.
– JLew
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Jesse,
Not sure why my bastardized version is not playable now. Maybe Dana thought the hip hop beat I added was inappropriate and wanted to put the kaibosh on it. I dunno. 🤨
I’ll DM PT’s version to you here on MP.
PT
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Ooh, great trick sidechaining the reverb return! That’s something I don’t think I’ve tried before … but I will now! Thanks, man!
And sorry for the mp3 shenanigans on this post — I think your post was right around when the server changed and one or two of these mp3s may have gotten lost in the shuffle. Feel free to post them again here in the thread if u like!
@-PT I see your mp3 “remix” and it plays correctly for me on my browser, and I can’t wait to hear your hip hop drums version! haha. Both of you gents – feel free to re-upload anything.
Hugs and high fives!
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So I’m not alone in having not thought about that DIY reverb ducker chain before.
I still think the $50 I spent on the verb is well worth it for ease of use, especially now that I’m making friends with daverb.
iZOTOPE Aurora
PT
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Jesse!
I just re-uploaded your original mp3 and re-listened, too. Such an absolute priceless gem of a song!
I think the M-S guitar sounds really beautiful, nice work! You might try EQ’ing the Mid mic with some extra low end to help the guitar feel a bit richer and closer (low-end often creates a perspective for the listener that feels like they’re right next to you, listening to you play. By reducing low-end you can also create the illusion that an instrument is farther away). I remember you using a clip-on DPA mic in previous recordings which rendered an unforgettable depth and low-end to your guitar. For future M-S adventures, you might try a combination of DPA as your ‘close mic’ and set your M-S a foot or two away as– not so much a ‘room mic’, but — a stereo ‘mid mic’. Just make sure to move the M-S configuration closer or farther from the guitar to adjust for optimal phase coherence (and/or use your fav phase alignment tool during mixing). Again, these are just some ideas for next time! Your guitar recording sounds lovely here, as is.
For your vocal, I’m really missing some low-end richness. I hear a lot of S’s and mid-range information in the vocal but when your melody goes low I lose the fundamental pitch. Perhaps some thoughtful EQ, compression and de-essing will help richen things up and even things out.
If I’m wearing my Producer hat, I’d say to you: Jesse, this beautiful song with its endearing sentiment should feel like a hug. A rich, warm embrace for your target audience of one, your sweet son. Let the tones be rich, deep, and even on the darker side if helpful to create that sense of warmth and closeness. For vocal mic’ing especially, this is a perfect opportunity to utilize your large-diaphragm cardioid-patterned condenser microphone’s proximity effect. Position your mic a few inches from your mouth, with a good pop-filter in between and listen to the low-end in your voice bloom. Proximity effect (and EQ) is how radio DJs and podcasters get your car’s subwoofer rumbling solely using their voice haha. Some plugins that help me create or accentuate this vocal sound after-the-fact during mixing are Waves R-Bass or Little Labs VOG (Voice Of God). So if you’re not interested in re-recording your vocal very close to the mic for proximity effect, you might experiment with one of those.
Lastly, for extra inspo, this song popped into mind as I was writing and thinking about the ‘warm hug’ vocal and guitar sound. Seth recorded this, I co-produced and mixed. (Tidal links allow u to choose your preferred streaming service, so feel free to click on it even if you don’t have Tidal … yet 😉).
https://tidal.com/browse/track/244397958?u
Keep up the incredible work, brother!!
tidal.com
Seth Avett - I Slept All Night by My Lover
Listen to I Slept All Night by My Lover on your streaming service
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Thank you thank you thank you for the feedback! Dana – I had just actually rendered a mix (version 2) before reading your comments which addressed getting the vocal louder per @CMN and @dana , as well as also carving some space with some subtle izotope”unmasking” and also adding a bit of sound city room to the vocal plus a bit of UA’s plate (utilizing my poor mans reverb send sidechain) per @-PT .
Cats – Before I proceed with Dana’s other suggestions can you let me know if it feels like it’s in a better place re: vocal/guitar balance?
Here’s my Version 2:
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Nice work, Jesse! Some great improvements in this v2 version! I made a quick video demonstrating my thoughts and suggestions… 😂
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alright cats! Here’s version 3: (i used the Avett track as my ref)
- more low end in mid/mono guitar for warmth/proximity
- a little less brightness in the sides guitar
- boosted the volume of the vocal
- more vocal low end (boosted around 100 w/ pultec)
- a little more de-essing in the vocal and slightly less high end in general
- a little smidge more of the plate reverb send for the vocal too
feeling more like a j-bear hug now? Or am I coming on too strong? haha
any help getting this across the finish line gratefully accepted:)
love,
JLew
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Bravo, Jesse!!! As I was listening, this ad from our childhood popped into my head.
(I also thought it’d be a good way for me to test uploading an image, which I’ve noticed has given you and @-PT trouble lately – possibly having to do with the website’s image optimizer plugin 🤷🏻♂️)
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Thanks for all the help broski! It’s very much appreciated. ❤ -JLew
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Hi Jesse – this track is so beautiful and I found it really inspiring!! I have a song i’m trying to write for my son, he just turned 1. I have some nice verses but am still searching for the right chorus. The way you’ve crafted this song is masterful!! Kudos and thanks for sharing it!!
I also wanted to let you and Dana know – it is so cool to listen to V1, read the comments, V2, read the comments, V3, hear how much better the track is. I learned a lot! The V3 recording sounds fantastic to me. It presents your voice beautifully and the low bump really brings out those lower notes in the verse. Really awesome to hear this develop!!
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Joe, Yea, the low end bump on v3 echoes the vocal tonality on the reference track that Dana suggested. It’s ll warm and comforting, perhaps like the little monsters perceive it when laying on Dad’s chest. I would implore Jesse to not test my hypothesis with his teen out of an abundance of caution. My suggestion to Jesse to try capture the fishies’ perspective with an underwater mic still stands though.
PT
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🤣🤣🤣
ps – Paul – Thanks for lending your ears and all of your support on this one. Couldn’t have gotten it to where it is without your help. Many thanks.
JLew
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👍
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Thanks so much Joe! I really appreciate the positive feedback. I’m primarily a guitarist and rarely sing, so sharing this song was super vulnerable for me. But, I’m glad I did. I learned so much in the process. This forum is such a great place to grow as a producer/mixer/musician. Love this community!
LOVED the video you shared, too! And I can’t wait to hear the song you’re writing for your son when it’s ready:)
Best,
Jesse
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Awe, that is so cool, @JoeRobinson! That right there is totally one of the main goals of the Member Spotlight forum (and Mix Protégé at large): that by working together, helping each other out, and documenting our progress here, we’re creating a searchable database of helpful mixing insights for all members – including those who weren’t a part of the original discussion but who found it later by searching keywords for help on a specific topic..
(… which btw, is also why I try to tag each of these discussions with related keywords like instrument, related technique, suggested plugins, etc.)
When I read your comment that you found @JLEW‘s progress here helpful for your own endeavors, that brought a big smile to my face! Thanks! 🙏🏻⚡️💜
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Jesse, that’s close but I was thinking something more like this.
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😂😂😂 haha
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cats – I’ve read @dana ‘s comments thouroughly, loaded the avett bro song into my session as a ref, and watched Dana’s video several times… I’m ready to hug the living crap out of your ears. Stand by for version 3…
ps —
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Hey Fam!
I wanted to share the video I made for “Way To You.” My wife did the illustrations and we played it for our son the night before his 13th birthday! Thanks so much to all who encouraged me and helped get this on across the finish line. Much love! – JLew
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Jesseeeeeeeeee!!! This is utterly beautiful and perfect and touching and creative and I just love it so much!! What an immensely talented family you have. This video and song and artwork are a treasure; a little time capsule of beauty for your family to enjoy forever and ever 🥰. It’s been a real joy to observe your progress during the mixing phase here in the community!!! BRAVO!!!! 💜
PS – Hope you don’t mind I “merged” your new discussion thread, the one featuring your video above, into this existing discussion thread, cause I love how people can start at the top, read through all the comments, listen to your revisions, and then enjoy the final masterpiece at the end of the thread! So damn cool. Proud of u homey!
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Hey Jesse!
Bravo, man! Such a sweet tune, vibes and, as Dana said, time capsule for your music and family.
As a father (of a 12 year old girl), I am a big believer in the power of gifting music and sharing our love and legacy in this way, especially with a video with your wife’s art work!
Thanks for sharing! Do we get a boat version on da grams. 😉
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