Member Dana Nielsen
MemberForum Replies Created
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Homey! So good! And so sync-able (naturally, you sync gem!)
My only thoughts are:
• More kick in intro. I know you’re kinda waiting to reveal the kick when the whole beat drops, but maybe try letting the full kick be in the intro but low-pass it or band-pass it? So it feels loud enough and knock-y enough on small speakers while still letting the listener know “this is just the intro beat … just you wait .. this track about to knock your head off when the REAL beat drops!” (which it DOES! 👏)
• Intro lead Vocal feels a bit loud against the track and also a bit “spitty” on the tippy top end. “Spitty” has nothing to do with literal spit in my learned lingo FYI, it just means sibilant and/or a bit too hype-y or shrill on the top end.
• The level and tone of the chorus vocal when the whole beat comes in at :30 is GREAT. I would use that as a guide to level/tone the intro vocal.
• Hi hats throughout the song – I would tuck these in a bit. They feel too out in front of the track to me.
• 1:07 I’d try a bone dry vocal here till 1:30
• 1:50 Vocals here starting to feel spitty again – not sure if u boosted the top end here for these chorus vocals or if it’s just that there are more harmonies stacking up compounding their top end, but I might try dialing it back a touch. U could even try leaving the lead voc alone but dialing back the top end boost on the backgrounds to see if that does the trick.
• Final lyric “the top is like wuh” could be boosted so u can really hear it and it doesn’t get too swallowed up by the cool swoosh fx. (also, sorry, I’m sure I don’t have your lyrics correct haha – just typing fast)
BRAVO dude! What a super banger! I can hear this track with all it’s sections and drops and twists and turns being a commercial AND sync hit! ⚡️
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Roy! Wudup, man! Can’t wait to listen to this in the studio tomorrow!
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@Bigchrizzle! This is such a great question and one I think about and tinker with all the time.
Here’s my general approach to fx while mixing.
- I always get my initial balance without reverbs / delays, and I let the dry mix “tell” me what it needs — for example, while I’m working on the dry balance my imagination is filling in various effects like a vocal tape slap effect or a delay throw on that lyric there, etc.
- After I’ve been mixing “dry” and my imagination has been consistently suggesting the same effects ideas over and over again, I’ll take a moment to manifest those ideas using various plugins on a series of stereo FX returns like Slap, Delay, Verb, Modulation, etc. This initial “FX manifest” doesn’t have to be 100% perfect, but it should at least be a quality representation of my imagined sound.
- I’ll play around, mixing with the FX, automating some of the special FX moments I’d imagined, having fun while doing some delay throws, reverse reverbs, maybe some kind of bone-dry vocal line when the band drops out before the last chorus …
- Then I’ll mute them all again and really focus on the dry mix, imagining “how could I make this mix radio-ready without any effects?”. I’ll really try to make the mix as engaging and exciting as possible with no reverb, delay, etc. This “back to dry” process forces me to work harder on what I would consider the essentials: balance and automation.
- Once I have a dry mix that really slaps, that I’m loving even without FX, then I’ll put headphones on and bring my FX return faders back up, little by little, adjusting to taste. Doing this part in headphones ensures I wont add more FX than needed – the FX are there to support an already rocking mix. And since I already designed the FX in step 3 and know they’re in the ballpark, this final step is really just about fine-tuning rather than exploration and discovery.
So in general I like to keep things fresh and stay inspired by toggling back and forth (usually for hours, sometimes days, at a time) between dry mixing and wet mixing. And the point at which I switch between those modes is when I feel I’ve started to lose steam or perspective and need to re-inject some inspiration into my process. ⚡️
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Homey! So exciting to hear this great track progress, and glad you took the plunge into melodyne – that software is incredible. Nuthin like it. And the vocal work you’ve done is definitely sounding more polished! Nice 👌
The mix sounds different than before – kinda thin and scooped out in everything but the bass and kick drum. When I checked the new mix against your original mix (and that Christine and the Queens ref) I was like, “ahhhh there’s all the body I was missing!”
Maybe you left sonarworks on while you bounced the file, or went too deep on a new mastering plugin? 🤷🏻♂️ I’m so curious! But regardless, it’s definitely comin along man! ⚡️
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Jesse!! What a great question.
Yeah, I love to “cover my bases” for mixing options later by capturing a great close mic’ed sound (mono or stereo) and supplementing with room mics, which can be balanced to taste later during mixing.
When placing the room mics (and all mics for that matter) I try to ensure that their signal is recorded in phase with the close mics — and also with each other, which you could check by soloing the room mics and flipping polarity on one of them to see if the sound gets better or worse. One advantage of XY stereo mic’ing and other ‘coincident pair’ mic setups is phase btwn the two stereo mics becomes a non-issue. With the capsules right on top of one another with a 90º angle, it’s near impossible for the phase btwn the two mics to be anything other than glorious.
Once your room mics are sounding good on their own, any phase discrepancies btwn the room mics and the close mic(s) can be adjusted by physically moving the room mics closer or farther from the close mic until all the mics blend together in a positive/additive way.
NOTE: when checking phase like this you always want to make sure all signals are playing back at roughly the same loudness. Even if you know you’ll likely bury the room mics at a low volume beneath the direct mic, you gotta turn up the rooms so they’re as loud as the direct mic(s) to hear the cumulative effect of flipping those polarity buttons in or out.
As for time-alignment of the room mics during mixing, that’s not something I do regularly at all. Once in a while I’ll scoot room mics earlier on the timeline (or later!) to get a desired effect, or if I like the room sound but sense that the mics were really placed farther away than I would have liked. (And, importantly, this trick would only work if there’s no bleed from other instruments in the room mics you’re moving, otherwise you’d screw up the room sound and phase relationship related to those other instruments).
Honestly, the only times I can recall doing radical time alignment on room mics like that is when I’m mixing live performances and the front of house mics or other ambience mics in the audience are creating too much of an echo effect against the direct stage mics because those mics were literally hundreds of feet away from the stage.
For day to day studio room mics and whatnot tho, I will definitely throw a time adjuster plugin or Little Labs IBP or SoundRadix Auto-align on there and do some sweeping micro timing adjustments if I feel like I can get the phase relationship tighter. And importantly, this method a) is only delaying the signal by samples or milliseconds, not seconds; b) does not move things earlier, only later in time, which is why I tend to use these plugins on the close mic/DI as opposed to the room; and c) will keep your audio clips at their original position on the timeline, which I’m always in favor of when it comes to time-alignment. Otherwise I’m libel to accidentally move some clips more than others and/or forget the specific offset I used when moving them, etc … all sorts of potential gremlin nightmares arise haha.
Ok that answer got a little long! Hope this all makes sense and is helpful, you rockstar!
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Cammy! This is such a gem of a song and performance, and love the recording too, nice work!
I listened to your references and I think you are spot on in the sounds and production, and I don’t think it would take much work to get the vocal and rest of mix sounding like those refs. If you feel like DM’ing me a lead vocal stem and an instrumental stem (w the bgvs in it too) maybe I can crank out a quick vid for you and the MP fam here on how I would get it there.
Mostly just taming a bit of low-mid “honk” in the voc with some multiband compression, then some voc wide-band compression, a healthy dose of silky top end (neve, pultec, NTI/maag are a few favs). Then a healthy dose of gentle limiting across the whole mix to get it loud and competitive, without wrecking the natural vibes, just like the refs.
Side Note: at 2:04 there’s a weird pitch rub going on in the band (maybe a tom ringing strangely against the chord being played by the band? Not sure, but maybe you’ll hear it).
Great work on this, Cammy! Is this you singing and/or playing as well?
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OMG @Nate – this is utterly gorgeous and amazing. This whole song, production, mix, EVERYTHING is so. freaking. incredible, you animal!!!
Shoutout to @JLEW who captured my feelings exactly in his first and last paragraphs, so a big phat “DITTO” to what he said.
Here are my verbatim notes I wrote while listening for the first time. As always, take or leave. AND, these are all just musings of my overactive brain, lol. NONE of these thoughts is important AT ALL in any kind of “youuuu should really fix this, Nate” type of way, haha.
2:34 – lose the kicks in “maybe someday” for a nice little dropout
choruses – main “wow” filter juno-ish synth pokes out too much to my ears against the rest of the exquisitely balanced track. It’s possible the level is ok but the stereoizing is making it feel too wide making it pop out too much? [I mostly noticed this in the 1st and 2nd chorus, less so later]
4:12 – breath and noises before choir – I would clipgain those waaay down so the breath level matches the perspective of the outgoing lead vocal – meaning keep the breath the loudness of what your lead vocal singer would sound like in the full chorus mix for a smoother transition.
piano outro – piano might be a bit too loud overall in keeping with the perspective of the massive size of the chorus before it? Or, if u keep it that level, I might try lowering the mechanical thumps and noises, which caught my attention and pulled me out of the trance for a sec as the chorus ended. I know that hyper-macro-lens-thumpy-mechanicals are all the rage in neo-classical Olafur Arnalds upright piano pop trends, lol, and that’s cool, and I love hearing the hammers lift as the final sound of the record!! But my experiment would be seeing if there’s a way to ease into the thumpy mechanics more slowly while keeping the “notes” of the piano at a constant volume. Does that make sense? Like piano sound like this = and thumpy mechanics like this <. Maybe that’s possible with hi-pass automation and/or some RX-ing to turn down the thumps in the front half of the piano outro?
Lastly, I’m so sorry for the loss you experienced which inspired this song. You really nailed that feeling, that emotion, and I can’t think of a better way to honor that relationship than you’ve done here with this magnificent work! 💜
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So hoooooky, bruh!! Another freaking jam, man! Here are allll of the thoughts that occurred to me while I listened (not just the specific thoughts you requested – sorry, I can’t help myself! Take w a grain of salt ..)
2:38 – dying to hear the uh-uh-uh-uh vocal hook here in the breakdown
2:56 – when this post-breakdown chorus comes charging in I want something new to amp up the energy even more, like 16th-tamb and/or triangle pattern, and/or new perc-y loop element
3:14 – same note here as 2:56: bring in something new once the lead vocal ends and the track becomes instrumental party jam. Another new rhythmic element that we haven’t heard before. Could also introduce a new harmonic element too if u wanna go nuts … huge grand piano octave “bass bombs” holding whole notes, or deep e-gtr power chord whole notes
3:17 – uh-uh-uh-uh-uh vocal answer
3:20 – opportunity for a lead vocal tag/refrain of the title, verbed out, “we are animals”
3:26 – uh-uh-uh-uh-uh vocal answer
3:29 – we are animals (with dotted-quarter feedback delay, fading into track fade)
Other general notes (as always, take em or leave em!):
- love the low end
- feel like the mix overall could be brighter and a bit more aggressively poppy mastered
- Do u have a reference mix you’re using for this song? One song that just popped into mind that has a similar breezy summer essence and feel-good chords w synthy poppy textures is “iT” by Christine and the Queens (this link will work even if u don’t have Tidal): https://tidal.com/browse/track/83130513?u
- I found myself getting pulled out of the trance of the music on several little occurrences of minor vocal tuning or vocal alignment discrepancies btwn the two lead vocal doubles, like when an S or a T are flamming. Your vocals always have a very honest, natural, endearing quality that draws me in and makes me feel like I’m getting a true unfiltered treat straight from the source! And I would never steer you away from that essence!!! That said tho, if I were mixing/producing this track I’d prob give those leads a lil 15% nip-tuck in the ol’ pro tools melodyne machine to nudge them ever so slightly toward pop-polish.
Amazing music you’re crankin out, homey!! Thanks so much for sharing here with us!!
PS – @-PT is on a Motorcycle cross-country road trip without his computer and wants you and @JLEW and @Pat to know that he gets alerted that you two have posted here on MP and it’s eating him up inside not being able to respond to your recent posts to cheer you on and offer his sage wisdom!
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Can’t wait to put my ears on this in the studio tomorrow (mon), homey!
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This wikipedia article is pretty dang fascinating if you or anyone else is interested in further reading on the subject of microphones and polar patterns. I had no idea there were such things as laser, fiber-optic, and plasma mics!!! ⚡️🧑🔬🔭🎤
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone#Capsule_design_and_directivity
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Jesse! Great questions, and you’re right about the way cardioid and omni polar patterns pick up sound, with cardioid picking up sound from the front of the mic/capsule and omni picking up sound from the front, back and sides of the mic/capsule.
But … it’s important to understand that regardless the polar pattern, these mics output a mono signal. An omni mic WILL capture sound on all sides, giving you a non-directional representation of the room, for example; however, it will be a mono recording of the room … unless you use two or more mics and pan them anywhere other than center.
In the case of an omni mic when we listen to the recorded audio on a stereo playback system, the sound does come out of both speakers but equally so, thus it is mono. One mic – even when in omni, picking up sound from all sides – can never reproduce stereo sound. Gotta have 2 or more mics to recreate the stereo image you hear with your two ears 😉
Does that make sense? I’m realizing while typing just how odd and difficult these concepts are to write about. Much better to demonstrate with sound and/or video! 🤘
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Awesome, man, I’m so glad to hear that! Happy to help, and look fwd to hearing what you’re up to!
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Yeah your instincts are correct: put IBP on one of the two tracks so you can sweep around the delay and phase knobs to find a setting that brings the piano “into focus”, especially the low end and low-mids, which is where you’ll likely hear the biggest effects of this IBP knob twirling.
That said, I find that upright pianos are always a bit of an untamable beast when trying to find the perfect full-frequency phase alignment between two or more close mics. I attribute this to the fact that the strings on the soundboard criss-cross: low strings running diagonally in one direction, hi strings diagonally in the opposite direction overtop the low strings. So I’ve found stereo close-mic’ing an upright seldom results in perfect phase results across the whole frequency spectrum. You might sweep the IBP and get a perfect result in the low register but find that setting isn’t great for the mid-range.
So … with that in mind, what I love about the IBP is I can sweep around and tailor the L/R phase and time alignment to suit the song, giving preference to frequencies (i.e., notes on the keyboard) that are prominent in the arrangement and/or essential to the song or mix. For example: who cares that the stereo piano mics are perfectly aligned and in phase for the lowest notes of the instrument if those notes are never played in this song? If a tree falls and no ones is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
Know what I mean? I hope I’m making sense, Patrick!
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Yep, you nailed it! You’re totally on the right track, and all of your understanding is solid!
I haven’t heard the Lewitt so I can’t specifically comment on that mic. But one super helpful resource I love using to audition various mics is Audio Test Kitchen. You can put that Lewitt mic up against other mics in your virtual “mic locker” and seamlessly audition and compare the mics using a library of sound sources.
Plus it was founded by a legend among us here in our MP community (tho I don’t want to put him on the spot at the moment – perhaps a collab vid in our future would be fun 🤩)
Anywho, I use it all the time and recommend it all the time. It’s pretty damn cool, and quite a monumental undertaking to have sampled all these mics on all these sound sources with laser precision scientific accuracy for a true and trustworthy comparative sonic assessment!
audiotestkitchen.com
Audio Test Kitchen | Compare the sound of 300 microphones
Find the best microphone for you. Try microphones before you buy on the world's largest online microphone shootout. Listen to unbiased comparison recordings. Compare standardized frequency response graphs. Created by Grammy-winning engineers and renown scientists.
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Awe, that means so much, brother, thank you! I’m always so excited when u post stuff cause I know it’ll be amazing and I can’t wait to hear it!