Member Dana Nielsen
MemberForum Replies Created
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Joe! This is such a big improvement, man, great work! Fantastic video too – love seeing the behind the scenes!
I first listened to the audio file and then watched the video. Sounds like the same mix(?) but the video is much louder, which I enjoyed. I felt like the mp3 audio-only file was nicely balanced but definitely on the quiet side, mastering-wise. Whatever loud-sauce you added to the youtube audio was nice!
I love what you’ve done here with the mix. And no, I don’t think there’s too much low end. It is prominent, but in a great way … deep, not overbearing, and evenly distributed on the elec bass (i.e. I don’t hear certain notes popping out with more low end than other notes 👌).
All the instruments feel balanced nicely, the mix is lively and exciting, really well done!
The only mild curiosities I had were:
- Stereo Width: the intro felt wide and exciting, but once the first A-section began the mix felt quite mono-ish throughout the song except for a few occasional splashes of sound into the Left or Right speaker. I would experiment with stereo placement of some of the synthy or supplemental guitar textures to paint a wider soundscape.
- The tom fills, on the other hand, were very stereo! haha. And possibly a touch too loud. Given that the mix overall isn’t super wide, I’d keep the toms panned a bit closer to center so they feel attached to the drums and the band.
- The compression on the snare works in general, as it keeps those brushes motoring steadily and evenly throughout the song. However, I really hear the compressor clamp down any time there’s a snare fill, and as a listener I want those fills to breathe and get louder. I would try raising your snare compressor’s threshold (so the compressor activates on fewer hits) and/or decreasing the ratio (which would effectively reduce the intensity of that “compressed sound”). For natural-sounding snare compression you might try 3:1 or 4:1. Ooh, another option if your compressor has a “blend” or “mix” knob, is to keep your compression setting as it is, and just adjust the compressor’s mix knob to like 50%.
I can’t remember if I shared this with you already, but feel free to check out the recent “Compression Settings By Ear” Zoom in the Live Event Replays forum 🤘
Again, great work on the mix! And amazing song and chops, man!!
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Jesse!
I just re-uploaded your original mp3 and re-listened, too. Such an absolute priceless gem of a song!
I think the M-S guitar sounds really beautiful, nice work! You might try EQ’ing the Mid mic with some extra low end to help the guitar feel a bit richer and closer (low-end often creates a perspective for the listener that feels like they’re right next to you, listening to you play. By reducing low-end you can also create the illusion that an instrument is farther away). I remember you using a clip-on DPA mic in previous recordings which rendered an unforgettable depth and low-end to your guitar. For future M-S adventures, you might try a combination of DPA as your ‘close mic’ and set your M-S a foot or two away as– not so much a ‘room mic’, but — a stereo ‘mid mic’. Just make sure to move the M-S configuration closer or farther from the guitar to adjust for optimal phase coherence (and/or use your fav phase alignment tool during mixing). Again, these are just some ideas for next time! Your guitar recording sounds lovely here, as is.
For your vocal, I’m really missing some low-end richness. I hear a lot of S’s and mid-range information in the vocal but when your melody goes low I lose the fundamental pitch. Perhaps some thoughtful EQ, compression and de-essing will help richen things up and even things out.
If I’m wearing my Producer hat, I’d say to you: Jesse, this beautiful song with its endearing sentiment should feel like a hug. A rich, warm embrace for your target audience of one, your sweet son. Let the tones be rich, deep, and even on the darker side if helpful to create that sense of warmth and closeness. For vocal mic’ing especially, this is a perfect opportunity to utilize your large-diaphragm cardioid-patterned condenser microphone’s proximity effect. Position your mic a few inches from your mouth, with a good pop-filter in between and listen to the low-end in your voice bloom. Proximity effect (and EQ) is how radio DJs and podcasters get your car’s subwoofer rumbling solely using their voice haha. Some plugins that help me create or accentuate this vocal sound after-the-fact during mixing are Waves R-Bass or Little Labs VOG (Voice Of God). So if you’re not interested in re-recording your vocal very close to the mic for proximity effect, you might experiment with one of those.
Lastly, for extra inspo, this song popped into mind as I was writing and thinking about the ‘warm hug’ vocal and guitar sound. Seth recorded this, I co-produced and mixed. (Tidal links allow u to choose your preferred streaming service, so feel free to click on it even if you don’t have Tidal … yet 😉).
https://tidal.com/browse/track/244397958?u
Keep up the incredible work, brother!!
tidal.com
Seth Avett - I Slept All Night by My Lover
Listen to I Slept All Night by My Lover on your streaming service
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Hey Drew, thanks for the excellent question, and I love the multi-city remote collab! There are actually a handful of songs on the latest Avett Brothers’ album that I recorded in the same manor, remotely, one or two instruments at a time.
@-PT has already beat me to the punch with some great suggestions that help make a huge difference in the “reverb vs mud” battle. I’ll quickly reiterate a few of those and rattle off a few more musings that might help…
- It sounds like what you need is something subtle. Something more felt than heard. Something you’ll perhaps notice on headphones but much less so on speakers. In these situations (really, in all situations), finding the right reverb is essential. Take your time, try different units/plugins and then try different “room” or short decay presets on offer within each plugin. Then, when you find something close to what you envision, wiggle all the parameters/knobs from 0% to 100% and learn what they do by hearing the effect change. From there you’ll learn which knobs help turn that “almost there” preset into the perfect sound in your head. One room-style reverb I’ve turned to often is the UAD Ocean Way plugin.
- Once I’ve twiddled knobs and gotten as close as I can on one preset or plugin, I might bypass the plugin, duplicate the plugin onto the next insert and go hunting for “option B”, repeating the same process as above with a different “almost there” preset. Or load up an entirely different reverb plugin/engine on the next insert and see what kind of magic I can stumble onto with that. I might end up with 3 or 4 bypassed reverb options ready to go, ready to un-bypass and try on at any time. I might fall in love with one option for 20 minutes or 2 weeks and then all the sudden realize I kinda hate it, lol, then I can quickly switch to another reverb option I’ve already spent time on and is already really dialed (by me) and ready to go.
- Finding the perfect verb for each song is hard. And it’s fun. If you’re not landing on something special right away, that’s perfectly natural. If you follow the steps above, and are diligent about saving your own fav presets along the way, you’ll start amassing your own collection of go-to reverb settings you can call on again and again.
- I almost always end up EQ’ing the reverb for final adjustments, either by using the eq settings within the reverb itself, and/or by adding an additional EQ insert after the reverb. An amazing de-mud trick as @-PT mentioned is to reduce or cut the low frequencies of the reverb return. Fantastic trick. I also often times use some shelving EQ to reduce the high frequencies too if needed.
- Play around with the reverb’s pre-delay setting. Listen to how the effect changes as you move from 0% to 100% pre-delay. Pre-delay is measured in milliseconds, not percentage, but I mention percentage ’cause I’m a big advocate of pushing all knobs of all your plugins to THE MAX so you can really hear what each knob does. Pre-delay will delay the reverb, giving your source sound time to poke through the mix, dry for a moment, before the reverb is heard. This is another great trick to avoid a verb-y muddy soup. And it can be an exciting effect when pushed to the extreme!
- When recording instruments in isolation, such as in your remote recording situation, I always like to include some extra mics picking up the room, which may (or may not) come in handy during mixing. This could be a) a very intentional positioning of close mic for direct sound plus a pair of mics in X-Y configuration deliberately positioned a few feet from the sound source; or b) a more haphazard approach with a close mic for direct sound plus whatever other mics happen to be set up around the room at that given moment, regardless what they’re pointed at. Haha. Sometimes this produces the most amazing natural room sound cause it kinda imitates what it might sound like if you WERE all recording in the same room together.
Ok, I could go on and on and on, cause I love this stuff and this question and I’m all fired up and excited now haha, but it’s almost 2am and I have a session in the morning. I hope these tips (and those from other MP members and guests) will provide a bit of mix inspiration for you and your project, @DrewB! Feel free to post your audio progress in the Member Spotlight forum – would love to hear it!
uaudio.com
Ocean Way Studios | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio
Retain mic bleed, proximity, and other naturally occurring behaviors for realism with the Ocean Way Studios Plug-In. Learn more.
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One last thing .. I should also clarify that I almost never ever insert reverb directly on the source track. I always send individual tracks to reverb via an aux send, with the reverb inserted on an aux return track (with the reverb’s mix/blend knob set to 100% wet). This will give you the most control over the sound of each track, and will be the most efficient use of CPU-hungry reverbs. 🤓
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Awe, that is so cool, @JoeRobinson! That right there is totally one of the main goals of the Member Spotlight forum (and Mix Protégé at large): that by working together, helping each other out, and documenting our progress here, we’re creating a searchable database of helpful mixing insights for all members – including those who weren’t a part of the original discussion but who found it later by searching keywords for help on a specific topic..
(… which btw, is also why I try to tag each of these discussions with related keywords like instrument, related technique, suggested plugins, etc.)
When I read your comment that you found @JLEW‘s progress here helpful for your own endeavors, that brought a big smile to my face! Thanks! 🙏🏻⚡️💜
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Bravo, Jesse!!! As I was listening, this ad from our childhood popped into my head.
(I also thought it’d be a good way for me to test uploading an image, which I’ve noticed has given you and @-PT trouble lately – possibly having to do with the website’s image optimizer plugin 🤷🏻♂️)
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😂😂😂 haha
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Nice work, Jesse! Some great improvements in this v2 version! I made a quick video demonstrating my thoughts and suggestions… 😂
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Love the video, homey!! And excellent question.
As @-PT mentioned, what you’re discovering is gain staging (🥳), which refers to how we manage gain as it is applied (or reduced) at many different points in a signal path on its way to our ears.
Your video example shows one sound source with one send and one return in a digital audio workstation, where we don’t have the typical analog issues to contend with such as Signal to Noise ratio (S/N as commonly abbreviated like in Paul’s reply). As such, the answer to your specific video question is: there would be no difference. Kinda like, “do you get a different answer adding 1+9 vs. 9+1?” Nope. In a perfect, zero-noise digital world, they will both equal 10.
However, even in the digital world, here are 2 caveats that come to mind right away:
- When you’re sending multiple tracks to the same return, each with their own unique send level, the gain staging balancing act becomes much more complex. As a starting point, keep your return faders at 0db / Unity Gain and use the send pots/faders on your individual tracks to achieve the sound you want. Later on, if you feel you like the sound of the reverb but would love a little less of it overall, you can easily turn down the return fader for a quick win. Just be mindful: if you do that over and over your gain staging will get F-d up lol, as you’ll end up wanting to add more reverb to a track whose send is already at 100% cause you’ve turned down the reverb return fader too far over time.
- There are certain situations when I deliberately keep my send levels high and my return level low, even in the digital domain. Any time the effect(s) on the return path have some kind of harmonic distortion element or compression element I want to feed them lots of signal (via the sends). But maybe I don’t want the resulting effect so loud in the mix, so I will turn down the return fader — Or, if the final plugin inserted on the return has an ‘output’ knob I might utilize that instead or in addition to the fader … again, gain staging.
Hope these tips help!
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💜🤓 Woo!!
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Yeah so sorry bout that – it got lost during our server restructure! If u wanna DM it to me I can edit your original post and add it again!
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Ooh, great trick sidechaining the reverb return! That’s something I don’t think I’ve tried before … but I will now! Thanks, man!
And sorry for the mp3 shenanigans on this post — I think your post was right around when the server changed and one or two of these mp3s may have gotten lost in the shuffle. Feel free to post them again here in the thread if u like!
@-PT I see your mp3 “remix” and it plays correctly for me on my browser, and I can’t wait to hear your hip hop drums version! haha. Both of you gents – feel free to re-upload anything.
Hugs and high fives!
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Soooo great, homey! Bravo!!!!
My final thoughts/ideas (with salt🧂):
– try bouncing an option that has lead vocals down -1.5db and drums up +2db and see if it floats ur boat
– I hear something flamming with the snare every 2 bars or so that kinda pulls me out of the trance
Fantastic work, brother!!! 🤘💜⚡️
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Ooooh! So stoked to give this a listen when I’m back in front of speakers, Jeremy!!! Wooo!
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My pleasure, @DrewB!
1) Do you pan the reverb send towards the pan of the instrument? For example ‘Follow Main Pan’ in Pro Tools or something like that?
- That’s a great option and solid starting point! That said, I don’t follow that as a rule. In fact, sometimes I LOVE panning the direct signal on one side of the stereo spectrum and the reverb on the other side (great trick for delays too). Or whatever panning floats your creative boat! If your goal is realism though, then yeah, ‘follow main pan’ is a great choice.
2) Do you generally send the same levels of the instruments to the room reverb?
- No way, man! I mean, you certainly could do that … and it might end up sounding perfect. But … don’t miss out on additional creative options by applying a unique amount of verb to each instrument, giving the listener a sense of depth. For example, maybe the lead singer has very little room verb (send level very low), and the tambourine that enters in the chorus is tucked into the mix at a low volume but with lots of room verb (send level very high) to give the illusion that it’s farther away. You could magnify that effect even more by setting the tambo’s verb send to ‘pre-fader,’ which will allow you to tuck the direct tamb signal way down low (via the main mixer fader) yet still have plenty of signal sent to the verb (via the send fader). This is because, when sends are set to ‘pre-fader’ (aka ‘pre-fade’) they have full access to the dry signal before (aka ‘pre’) that dry signal gets turned down – or up – by the mixer fader.
Happy verb-ing!
Dana