Entourage Paul Tucci
EntourageForum Replies Created
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Jesse This is cool, and I’m assuming we have moved away from down by the river. Just when I was thinking “Would auto-tuning the whistle drift be a good idea?” you drop some seriously blue notes and a whack-a-doodle chord or two and then I said to myself… “Self, chill! The birds are flying up there for me as I watch the clouds drift by. It’s relaxing. The birds don’t fly along human-designated highways, the guitarist can follow their lead.” Very chill, effective, and dramatic simultaneously. PT
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Your ears so are damn good that you can just sense the “bringing back memories” experience I have from having worked for Franki Valli. That was 25 years ago and the live set was all about the hits, and they were at least 20 years old then. What a pleasure to help present his music to adoring, but aging fans reminiscing their youth. And the rock sound thing I’ve got going on in the drums… I was going for realism and grit as I recall the evening, but a more traditional hip hop sound on the kick will get me to a deeper and tactile bass which this version lacks. I’m excited to get to that revision. I have another song from that session that will benefit from the suggestions offered. Thanks. PT
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Alex, I am not an actual doctor, but I feel qualified to play one on the internet. I have a quick observation after a few listens that I’ll give you now, the rest after I dissect your specimen. I’m wondering if your arrangement would work better if you turned it around, meaning this. The outro, where the bass/drum riff breaks down to just the bass (or is it KB?) and ends with the explosion might make an engaging opening line. It’s slow moving, inviting, and intriguing AF compared to the busy, staccato, ping pong match currently offered. The on-ramp of a song can lure you in or be a bumpy impediment. The most effective ones draw you in. PT
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JLew, During my time in the live audio world an important lesson was learned that I believe is applicable to your question. The lesson Bob McCarthy, a world class system tuner taught was the concept of the ART / SCIENCE line. The band mixer’s responsibility was to create the best sounding presentation in terms of balance and especially, tonality. That is on the ART side of the ART / SCIENCE line. In this example, that line is an electrical signal handed to a PA system engineer. His responsibility is to accurately deliver that to the audience members. This arrangement put the onus on the mixer to get it right. There’s a very symbiotic relationship in play between the two. If the band mixer delivers a bright sounding (electrical) mix is it the responsibility of the PA system guy to tone it down to make it correct for the listening audience?? What if the opening act’s mixer has a different sensibility, and both his mind and preferred tonality leans dark? Mr. McCarthy say that Ii the speaker system is linear, neutral sounding, and accurate, a good and appropriate mix from the console should translate to the audience members. I’m in the weeds here, but the analogy I’m aiming for is this. The mixer is the artist that should make the ART as best he or she can. If master bus compression, tonal shaping, or intentional distortion of the electrical signal is part of the artist’s intent, it should be implemented before the mastering process. All that said, a professional mastering engineer who specializes in eeking out the last bit of level and super polish can make a huge difference and get your art noticed. FYI, I’ve been tinkering with the iZotope Ozone mastering product.
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Nice twist your own self with the technical critique question. As expected they cowered upon hearing it, never thought of retaliation, and will remember me forever.
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Hey Pete, I think you waited too long to put this one up. Perhaps you’ve had this stewing in your head and have got no objectivity left It’s closer to right than you may think. Two listens in and I’ll comment. There’s that choral flavor That happens early on in the intro. That’s a good flavor to utilize fully. That grabbed my ear as an engaging sound but I had to work to hear through to it. I think listeners would like more of that later in the song too. It happens to be buried by the bass synth. I felt like that bass synth was too dominant in both its bandwidth and duration. When the vocals arrived there was no room left for a warm vocal without going too loud on the vocal. I carved out a bit of 145 Hz and that seemed to tame the bass synth a good bit. If you’re feeling that the vocal tone left is too sibilant may I suggest the first verse be a single voice and save the vocal stack for the second verse and beyond. Between the territorially-dominant bass synth and the vocal stack with all the sibilance, intelligibility suffered and whats there sounds almost lispy. Consider low passing all but one of the vocal takes (probably panned center) and see if that gets you happier. When the drums come in later …they sound great, especially the snare. I was wanting the high hat played at that point to sit in with the rest of the kit, not way in the background. That trick worked in the intro, but when carried into the groovier section later, makes the hat sound distant and not as powerful as the rest of the kit. Take what you will. I’m just an old man that still says groovier 🙂 -PT
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Pete, Significant growth in this iteration! The vocal de-essing has greatly improved vocal intelligibility. The music seems to have a better loping movement throughout different sections.
In general, I like contrast of intensity and density during a song. It helps to grab and keep the attention of the listener, and that is paramount. If, for example, a musician plays the same riff front to back of the song it’s boring. Did the world learn nothing from the Beatles? If the musician develops the riff throughout the song, I find that appealing and worthy of attention. On the vocal side, that can be accomplished by using a single voice to convey intimacy, the doubling it later in the next verse to make it different. Different being potentially better. I suggest, you decide. And finally, I don’t know what the song is about, but the middle section breakdown where the drama happens, it seems like you added another (new to this version) line in the protagonist’ voice to further the story and add “flavor.” It works, even if I don’t intellectually grasp the intent. I wonder if you struggled with that decision. -PT
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The changes you made to this piece of music changed it dramatically. I actually listened to it and reacted differently. The fidelity it now has is the smooth on ramp to the song, to continue my analogy. Lesson to be noted re bandwidth: All frequencies matter. PT
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Thx, truth be known it’s all in the box, 57 on a banjo, KBs direct into a cheap DI, a large diaphram MXL on vocals, the NEVE console channel strips everywhere on the DAW, a couple flavors of saturation on select channels, soft clipping in the mastering process, and most importantly, judicious use of space in the arrangement.
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Don’t forget the Sonarworks headphone correction software.
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I was hopeful that the mixer’s opinion was in play. It only makes sense to me that if the band chooses the producer who hires the mixer, the producer ought to “let the mixer cook” as the kids say. Each level of mgt finding the right people who in turn, find the right peep for that intended flavor of presentation. If everyone is aligned, the magic might could happen more easily. I’ve only experienced that on the live audio side of the world and it’s a pleasure to work with those that ask for you (me), provide the tools, and clear the path for you (me) to do your thing. Cool, I crossed three generation in wordplay. PT (me/he/him)
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So I’m curious. In your experience, what’s the politics of who chooses the mastering engineer? Logically, that task should fall in the producer’s realm. But if the producer is much more musical than technical, who’s opinion matters most?
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Jesse, from my non-professional mixer perspective, I would ask the mastering guy what he or she would prefer in terms of peak and perceived loudness levels (True Peak and LUFS) and give said mastering engineer headroom to work with compared to my finalized version.
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Jesse, I appreciate the word! Positive feedback always feels good and helps further one’s determination to progress and get even better. Progress on the path is so dependent on having the vocabulary to discuss the topic, be it music production related or anything else. Little steps of understanding lead to bigger steps, and sooner than you think, you realize how little you know of the topic at hand. I’m thinking it’s a lifetime journey. -PT
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The bass ,as is, has a difficult time vying for attention because its tone is dark. No matter how loud you make it, it will not cut through the density of a distorto guitar and rapid fire drums. What sounds awful in solo mode may just be the thing to get the bass guitar to compete with rest of the trio. And that solo’ed sound may be very upper mid and pick-on-strings heavy. Like Lemmy on his Rickenbacker
PT