Member Dana Nielsen
MemberForum Replies Created
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Jesseeeeee!! This is such an excellent question I can’t wait to answer (cause I love this stuff and think about – and experiment with – all the time). I’ll probably circle back to this post when I have more time to elaborate, but a quick basic answer from my personal perspective would be:
- I love multi-mic acoustic guitar, especially when the guitar is the main focus of the mix/performance. Usually I’m using multiple mics to a) capture a bigger, fuller-frequency picture of the instrument, and b) so I can pan the mics across the stereo field for a wider “immersive” vibe. As such, I’m often choosing mic placements that are fairly tonally balanced, panning them, bussing them to a stereo aux input (or recording them directly onto a stereo track if I’m feeling really confident and/or lazy lol), and then EQ-ing the combined signal as one unified guitar sound.
- Sometimes tho I will touch up individual mics to remove resonant frequencies or hi-pass a mic with sub rumble etc. before they get summed together on the “Ac Gtr” stereo aux input channel for further EQ/compression/etc.
So I guess my short answer is: I do both. Sometimes. But also, not all the time. Easy right? 😂
I will say tho, that putting one mic on the fretboard for left hand definition and one mic on the body for right hand body could be more effective when summed together in mono rather than stereo (like I do often with upright bass) since, as you mentioned, the two parts of the instrument sound tonally pretty different from one another. If you were to pan those mics wide it might feel weird with all the low end body on the left speaker and relatively no body on the right speaker.
If you were, however, to put a stereo mic placement (XY, Blumlein, ORTF, etc) in front of the guitar near where the neck meets the body and back a foot or more, you’ll still be getting the best of both worlds (body from the body of the guitar, clarity and definition from the neck) but the sound will be more equally balanced in each mic since the two mics are placed right next to each other (also called a “coincident pair” of mics) so that the full combined frequency spectrum of the instrument (neck and body) arrives at the two mics at exactly the same time, which makes for a very balanced Left/Right image … if that’s what you’re going for.
There are so many other fun ways I like to multi-mic acoustic guitar too, which would be easier to demonstrate visually/audibly … maybe I’ll make a video series…
Meantime, there are those two vids on the Mix Protégé Instagram page about exactly these techniques (which I know you’ve already seen, but for anyone else reading this who might be interested ….)
Aaaaand, as usual, my “short quick answer” turned into a long one! haha. I can’t help myself. I love this stuff!! Keep us posted on your acoustic guitar mic’ing experiments!
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Yo! Listening now on real speakers. Here are a couple quick thoughts:
- can be louder overall – try a lookahead limiter on the master bus, like the Fabfilter Pro-L2
- the tamb-snare sound (like at 1:06) that alternates with the side-stick feels like it could be tucked in
- the ripping electric guitar is awesome(!) but around 1:45 it might dominate the rhythm section balance a bit too much. It’s fun that it’s that loud, but maybe if it remains that loud you could turn up the whole band behind it as well for that section. Or just tuck it in a bit to fit in with the drums/bass more. When the guitar comes back around 2:49 it feels more balanced in the mix w the rhythm section – so maybe try making 1:45 sound more like 2:49?
- In general, regarding the elec guitar level and everything else in this style of track, I would let the drums RULE throughout the song. Like … I never want the power and low end of the drum kit (esp the kick and bass) to get overshadowed by the rest of the mix, cause that’s what keeps the head bobbin’ and the listener hypnotized by the badass Massive Attack-style groove you’ve got here 😎
- This is gonna be awesome and I can totally imagine this sync’ed to a “suiting up for battle” style montage where the badass female spy/assassin/double-agent/heroine (characterized by your singer) is gearing up to covertly “eliminate” the handsome villain at the black-tie gala. Haha.
Awesome work, Stuart!!
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GOOD LORDT, @Nate, this is utterly gorgeous!!!! Wow, man. Stunning piece of music. I’m only listening on my Macbook Pro speakers at the moment (and will listen again on the studio speakers Sun night or Monday), but even on the MBP speaks it sounds phenomenal. And, I mean, musically too, it’s just fantastic. U should be super proud, man. The low end on the laptop sounded excellent – kick and synth bass coming through nicely. Felt very balanced, and I’m stoked to crank this on the ATC45s when back in the studio!
FWIW, here are two songs that came to mind while I was listening. Both are songs/records I love, and sharing here cause you might dig them too, and perhaps they’ll also be useful as references for your piece (not that u need them tho – more just sharing for love of music and style similarities).
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This one for the fabulous middle section bridge / instrumental / beach-boys-esque orchestration. I love this song and the way it blends hip hop/trap and 60’s era pop arranging (for lack of a better description). Like from 2:40 till the end it takes such an incredible unexpected turn, genre-wise and production-wise. And the video is amazing too. Moves me every time – just super creative, genre-bending, surreal storytelling. Enjoy!
https://open.spotify.com/track/3PPAFAhNAvJYs74JnujgGq?si=f6d7ad1416354a3c
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This one for general vibe and especially the descending synth bass tone and melodies
https://open.spotify.com/track/2aDVymoLLpxVmITtdK0yiD?si=2c8ca6d34c6d453c
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Awesome work, @smoothygroove! I just gave a quick listen on my laptop (MBP) speakers and it’s definitely dynamic and love all the sync/editor-friendly builds, breakdowns, fills, and transitions 🤘. I’ll listen for real on the big speakers Sun eve or Mon when back in the studio, but until then wanted to say wudup(!) and thanks so much for sharing — looking forward to what others here have to add, too.
One thing I can offer, even on the laptop speakers — arrangement/production-wise — is at the very last chorus section after the big snare fill I was hoping that big fat 80’s-ish snare sample u used for the fill/transition would stay in through to the end of the song! I was wanting that final chorus to be a real “kitchen sink” of an arrangement, incorporating all the fabulous elements you developed throughout the piece for a real maximalist badass-imalist ending section. Could be fun! But either way, great work, man!!
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Heavy breathing .. lololol. #realtalk
Love these additions, @Jon_Plett! And it’s a GREAT tip to use different guitars and/or mics to keep those overdubs from sounding too “same-y same same”. If that’s not possible and there is only one player playing one guitar on the same mic on all overdubs, I’ll often look for other ways to switch things up, such as:
- alternate tuning
- alternate chord positions (bar chords vs 1st position for example)
- capo
- alternate mic position
And, man, I’m soooooo glad the Natural Vocal Production course has been helpful, brother!
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@Martyn (aka James)!!! Amazing first post and so glad you’re here – you are such bright, creative, musical light!! I’m gonna bullet point a few quick musings of my own:
- Fantastic video share of your classical guitar recording. Alex Park sounds excellent. I can’t wait for my classical-guitar-wiz brother @Kwas (aka Casey Nielsen) to check this out too!
- I love ORTF – great work! Where can I get one of your 3D printed ORTF clips?? (I’m usually guess-timating and eyeballing my 17cm and 110-degrees 😬)
- Ideas for your next stereo classical guitar recording: 1) try the mics positioned more centered on the body of the guitar — perhaps the center of the ORTF somewhere around where the fretboard meets the body so that the resulting recording has the guitar more centered in the stereo field (currently it feels a bit right-side heavy); 2) try less compression – or a faster release time. I bet it’s the limiter in your Zoom recorder I’m hearing? Just curious! But these are just minor ideas of things to try … you’re doing GREAT!
- Yes! Love those Octava MK012’s! Excellent cost-effective lil mics. I’ve owned my pair for over 20 years.
Also, two more general points for the whole community:
- Don’t ever be afraid to contribute your own thoughts, feelings, and constructive suggestions for each other here on this platform! Very sweet of you and @Jon_Plett to high five what I already wrote (🙏🏻) but I don’t want my personal thoughts and discussions stifle any of your own! Keep chimin’ in, yall! It helps everybody, is more fun that way, and keeps Mix Protégé a vibrant community, not just a “Dana echo chamber” lol.
- EVERYONE got a personalized call-out in the Friday Fader this week! No one person was put on blast …. EVERY person was put on blast! Mwa haha ha ha haaaaa. Just trying to inspire my favorite folks (you all!) to pop by, share some knowledge, ask a question, encourage some members, and have some fun!
🤓
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Haha – my pleasure, brother!!
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Haha thanks man! I’ve always loved the visual aesthetic of music notation and admired many of my teachers’ penmanship throughout the years. (I prob should’ve spent more time shedding scales rather than “drawing” haha).
Musescore … ! Wow, I just looked into that and am so pumped to try it out – thanks for that! (FREE?? 🤯) I have Sibelius but I use it so infrequently that each time I launch it I end up scouring manuals and trying to relearn it and often times revert back to my handmade “music drawings” instead haha.
And right on — what a brilliant “thought exercise”. I totally know what you mean and feel the same way, often letting the “final product” finished mix (percolating in my imagination, or taking shape on the speakers) inform and inspire compositional/arranging decisions along the way! Love it!
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Yeah that album is incredible – we have “Sting night” fairly often around here lol. I love transcribing and used to do it a ton in high school and college. Dug around in my closet this evening and finally found this in one of my old transcription folders. Branford is such an insane talent.
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💜 Haha – my pleasure man! I totally get it! And what a great, supportive crew to bounce things off of 🙌
And, as with any mix ideas/comments — those from me, at any rate — feel free to use what ya like and ditch the rest!
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Oooh, “It’s Probably Me” – that’s a great one! I was also thinking of “Seven Days” and the end section of “I Was Brought To My Senses” (which features an amazing Branford Marsalis soprano solo I transcribed in college). Sting’s pretty amazing at making odd meters work in pop. What a riot that you were on the same wavelength!
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Dude … Just listened in the studio … wouldn’t change a thing! It’s freaking awesome! I love the mix, and I love the music. The low end is freaking bonkers 💪 and super-extra-credit for making a 5/4 time signature sound natural and danceable in a pop setting. I’ve always admired Sting for pulling that off over the years too. Anyway, you’re crushing it man, and I look fwd to hearing more! Bravo!
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Right?? Same, man. So glad you dig!
