Member Dana Nielsen
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Hey Drew, thanks for the excellent question, and I love the multi-city remote collab! There are actually a handful of songs on the latest Avett Brothers’ album that I recorded in the same manor, remotely, one or two instruments at a time.
@-PT has already beat me to the punch with some great suggestions that help make a huge difference in the “reverb vs mud” battle. I’ll quickly reiterate a few of those and rattle off a few more musings that might help…
- It sounds like what you need is something subtle. Something more felt than heard. Something you’ll perhaps notice on headphones but much less so on speakers. In these situations (really, in all situations), finding the right reverb is essential. Take your time, try different units/plugins and then try different “room” or short decay presets on offer within each plugin. Then, when you find something close to what you envision, wiggle all the parameters/knobs from 0% to 100% and learn what they do by hearing the effect change. From there you’ll learn which knobs help turn that “almost there” preset into the perfect sound in your head. One room-style reverb I’ve turned to often is the UAD Ocean Way plugin.
- Once I’ve twiddled knobs and gotten as close as I can on one preset or plugin, I might bypass the plugin, duplicate the plugin onto the next insert and go hunting for “option B”, repeating the same process as above with a different “almost there” preset. Or load up an entirely different reverb plugin/engine on the next insert and see what kind of magic I can stumble onto with that. I might end up with 3 or 4 bypassed reverb options ready to go, ready to un-bypass and try on at any time. I might fall in love with one option for 20 minutes or 2 weeks and then all the sudden realize I kinda hate it, lol, then I can quickly switch to another reverb option I’ve already spent time on and is already really dialed (by me) and ready to go.
- Finding the perfect verb for each song is hard. And it’s fun. If you’re not landing on something special right away, that’s perfectly natural. If you follow the steps above, and are diligent about saving your own fav presets along the way, you’ll start amassing your own collection of go-to reverb settings you can call on again and again.
- I almost always end up EQ’ing the reverb for final adjustments, either by using the eq settings within the reverb itself, and/or by adding an additional EQ insert after the reverb. An amazing de-mud trick as @-PT mentioned is to reduce or cut the low frequencies of the reverb return. Fantastic trick. I also often times use some shelving EQ to reduce the high frequencies too if needed.
- Play around with the reverb’s pre-delay setting. Listen to how the effect changes as you move from 0% to 100% pre-delay. Pre-delay is measured in milliseconds, not percentage, but I mention percentage ’cause I’m a big advocate of pushing all knobs of all your plugins to THE MAX so you can really hear what each knob does. Pre-delay will delay the reverb, giving your source sound time to poke through the mix, dry for a moment, before the reverb is heard. This is another great trick to avoid a verb-y muddy soup. And it can be an exciting effect when pushed to the extreme!
- When recording instruments in isolation, such as in your remote recording situation, I always like to include some extra mics picking up the room, which may (or may not) come in handy during mixing. This could be a) a very intentional positioning of close mic for direct sound plus a pair of mics in X-Y configuration deliberately positioned a few feet from the sound source; or b) a more haphazard approach with a close mic for direct sound plus whatever other mics happen to be set up around the room at that given moment, regardless what they’re pointed at. Haha. Sometimes this produces the most amazing natural room sound cause it kinda imitates what it might sound like if you WERE all recording in the same room together.
Ok, I could go on and on and on, cause I love this stuff and this question and I’m all fired up and excited now haha, but it’s almost 2am and I have a session in the morning. I hope these tips (and those from other MP members and guests) will provide a bit of mix inspiration for you and your project, @DrewB! Feel free to post your audio progress in the Member Spotlight forum – would love to hear it!
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One last thing .. I should also clarify that I almost never ever insert reverb directly on the source track. I always send individual tracks to reverb via an aux send, with the reverb inserted on an aux return track (with the reverb’s mix/blend knob set to 100% wet). This will give you the most control over the sound of each track, and will be the most efficient use of CPU-hungry reverbs. 🤓
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LOLOL – @-PT and @JLEW you are both CRACKING me up! 😂
Jesse, I love this as usual – your audio-visual adventures are magical and pure and inspired, and of them I shall never be tired. Bad dad-poetry aside tho, for real I mean it! And when I commented on this Youtube the other day (before you posted here) I had been wondering, “did he overdub the synth?”. MIDI guitar eh …..? More please!! 👏 How cool!
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I can’t wait to listen to this on real speakers, Jesse! And what a precious gift for your precious boy 💜
My preliminary quick phone listen had me agreeing with @CMN wanting louder J-Bear vocal! Sadly, however, on the phone I was unable to relish your Mid-Side badassery. I love that technique and can’t wait to hear how it came out when I get a chance on real speakers or headphones … soon!
Love love love the song, performance, and meaning!!
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K … sorry for the long, detailed response. So much good stuff here, homey! And I wanted to reward your patience (sorry MP fam I’ve been so tied up lately!) with some juicy suggestions and observations – as always, take or leave em brah!. Ok, so, per usual, here are my unfiltered notes while listening 🥰:
- Love the affected vocal intro hook!
- Love the vocal treament / fx / harms / adlibs!
- Great sonic treats in the pre chorus
- Chorus needs to explode! (in a suitable-for-the-song “gentle” type of explosion). It gets there, texturally as the chorus progresses and new synths and vocals join the party, but I feel like it needs a big wide signature synth pad/chord element that starts on the downbeat of the chorus to really let the listener know – to borrow a phrase I picked up in New Orleans, “Yeah you right! This is the chorus!” I’m imagining, synth wise, something wide and gooey and luscious, like a Juno-106-esque vibe with some verb and chorus and the high pass filter set to medium (so that later choruses could use the same patch but with the filter set a bit brighter 😉 always building the intensity as the song progresses. What @dolph, @andrew-feltenstein, @john-nau, @Wolfe, @Dewey and I refer to a GLB (General Linear Build), as in “GLB that shit, dawg!”
- 1:30 – top of verse 2… since the verse melody sounds similar to the end of the Chorus melody, it could be cool to start the drum dropout here and clear out all the leftover chorus bells n whistles here too, to again tell the listener, “Yeah you right – this is the next verse!” Keep the beat filtered and small for the first two bars of V2 instead of the 2-beat filter dropout you have at 1:34. I feel like the only fairy-dust awesome element you should keep in this 2-bar V2 dropout section is that super cool fluttery ascending synth at 1:33-1:34. Just that, and filtered drums, and your soothing verb-y Pet Shop Boys-reminiscent vocal stylings (slay).
- CH2 – could benefit from some new additional percussive loop or fun breakbeat-y thing. Again in the GLB spirit.
- 2:38 – pre-bridge reintro – I would try shortening this breakdown by half, getting into the bridge sooner.
- 3:07 – fake-out breakdown chorus – love this trick. Anything you can do to ratchet up the contrast between the broken down section and the full-blown chorus when it comes back in will help. Try clearing out more production for the breakdown, then hitting us with the full kitchen sink when it comes back in at 3:13. Maybe even try a riser or 16th note snare fill into the big chorus entrance, and then go nuts with the synths on full throttle, filters open and blazing and buzzing with heavenly-gates-parting technicolor magic. Add a brand new plucky synth too, possibly even arpeggiating to dance off the breakbeat percussive elements that you know you’ll wanna reuse from CH2! Blow the doors off that sucka!
- LOVE the easter egg vocal riff at the end of the fade-out!
This thing has great bones and is well on its way to radio goodness! I think if you wring a bit more out of the production (the fun part!) you’ll be in great shape. I also feel like Moby would be a good Spirit Animal for you for this track. If you get lost or overwhelmed while picking out new GLB elements and textures, just ask yourself: What would Moby do? (WWMD)
💜⚡️💥
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Homey! Sorry for the delay – been locked down in sessions the past few weeks with insane hours. Hoping to check out your latest magnum opus in the morn after some zzz’s!
Look fwd to hearing it, and reading the helpful ideas from others here in the community! 💜
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So sick!! Thanks a mill for sharing this, @Jon_Plett !! I can’t wait to download and dive in! 💜🙌🙏🏻
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Awesome, Joe! My pleasure, man! Cant wait to hear what u cook up next! 🎚️🧑🍳🎚️
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Joe! Damn, man – burning playing! 🔥 Great song too – thanks for sharing with us here!
My main initial mix observations are:
- EQ: the mix as a whole feels very “narrow”, frequency-wise. Not a whole lotta top, not a whole lotta bottom. Everything’s kinda hangin out in the middle of the frequency spectrum as if I’m hearing it through much smaller speakers than I’m actually listening on. I’ll offer some suggestions below.
- Compression: Everything sounds heavily compressed and I don’t think you need it! The meters on my system show some healthy activity, which tells me your mastering processing isn’t the culprit. I suspect what I’m hearing is some heavy compression on individual tracks or instruments. Trust me – I use compression all the time and love it! But when the settings are off (or when it’s used unnecessarily) the compression “artifacts” can really add up and become audible.
Here are a few things to try and/or check out:
- Try bypassing all your compressors and EQs on the master fader as well as on individual tracks/instruments. Pull all faders down, crank up your speakers nice and loud, and build a very basic mix using the 4 steps outlined in this pdf. Keep your speakers cranked and follow the metering guidelines I lay out. This is always my first step when mixing and allows me to relish in the full-frequency, full dynamic-range of the instruments and vibe out to a mix with zero regard for loudness, mastering, frequency “containment” etc. It’s so much fun working this way. Keep everything really simple (as few plugins as needed, correcting only the most egregious EQ or level issues.
- Feel free to check out this deep-dive on setting compressors by ear for some tips on choosing the best compressor for the job and tips on how I determine the best settings.
Hope this is helpful stuff for ya. Lemme know what you think, and keep us posted on your progress! Really awesome having you here in the community and hearing you SHRED!! ⚡️🎸
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Yeah so sorry bout that – it got lost during our server restructure! If u wanna DM it to me I can edit your original post and add it again!
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Ooh, great trick sidechaining the reverb return! That’s something I don’t think I’ve tried before … but I will now! Thanks, man!
And sorry for the mp3 shenanigans on this post — I think your post was right around when the server changed and one or two of these mp3s may have gotten lost in the shuffle. Feel free to post them again here in the thread if u like!
@-PT I see your mp3 “remix” and it plays correctly for me on my browser, and I can’t wait to hear your hip hop drums version! haha. Both of you gents – feel free to re-upload anything.
Hugs and high fives!
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Soooo great, homey! Bravo!!!!
My final thoughts/ideas (with salt🧂):
– try bouncing an option that has lead vocals down -1.5db and drums up +2db and see if it floats ur boat
– I hear something flamming with the snare every 2 bars or so that kinda pulls me out of the trance
Fantastic work, brother!!! 🤘💜⚡️
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Ooooh! So stoked to give this a listen when I’m back in front of speakers, Jeremy!!! Wooo!
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My pleasure, @DrewB!
1) Do you pan the reverb send towards the pan of the instrument? For example ‘Follow Main Pan’ in Pro Tools or something like that?
- That’s a great option and solid starting point! That said, I don’t follow that as a rule. In fact, sometimes I LOVE panning the direct signal on one side of the stereo spectrum and the reverb on the other side (great trick for delays too). Or whatever panning floats your creative boat! If your goal is realism though, then yeah, ‘follow main pan’ is a great choice.
2) Do you generally send the same levels of the instruments to the room reverb?
- No way, man! I mean, you certainly could do that … and it might end up sounding perfect. But … don’t miss out on additional creative options by applying a unique amount of verb to each instrument, giving the listener a sense of depth. For example, maybe the lead singer has very little room verb (send level very low), and the tambourine that enters in the chorus is tucked into the mix at a low volume but with lots of room verb (send level very high) to give the illusion that it’s farther away. You could magnify that effect even more by setting the tambo’s verb send to ‘pre-fader,’ which will allow you to tuck the direct tamb signal way down low (via the main mixer fader) yet still have plenty of signal sent to the verb (via the send fader). This is because, when sends are set to ‘pre-fader’ (aka ‘pre-fade’) they have full access to the dry signal before (aka ‘pre’) that dry signal gets turned down – or up – by the mixer fader.
Happy verb-ing!
Dana
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Alesis QS8!!! What a classic! I had the the QS6 was my first midi controller (prob inspired by you) and I had it for YEARS. These days I use my Roland System-8 synth as my controller. I also often use my beloved, tiny, powerful Arturia Keystep 37. Both of those connect via USB without the need for midi, tho I still do use midi occasionally for sure.
I’m so thrilled you’re up and running with your new Focusrite. AND that it included the Lite version of Ableton to tide you over till your addiction takes hold and you pawn your pizza oven for cash to buy the full version. 😂🍕
Can’t wait to hear what you’re cookin up over there (ableton-wise and pizza-wise)!